005 Star Wars pt 2, Automation Sequences, Albert Einstein

005 Star Wars pt 2, Automation Sequences, Albert Einstein
Self-Publish Strong Podcast

00:00 / 53:20

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Andrea: Hi, everyone! Welcome to the Self-Publish Strong podcast. I’m your host Andrea Pearson. I’m joined today by my husband.

Nolan: Hi, this is Nolan.

Andrea: Today we’re going to be finishing up talking about Star Wars. That’s the plan anyway. Hopefully we’ll get through all of our notes.

Nolan: Well, if we go at the same rate we’ve been going, we’ll talk about the movie longer than it is.

Andrea: Yes. That’s a good point. We had a discussion yesterday. We actually recorded that last episode yesterday. Today is February 17, 2018, but we were talking yesterday about how it’s like we’re summarizing things. We’re trying to refocus and not summarize so much as, you know, explain why something would work well as writing or wouldn’t work well for writing.

Nolan: To sum it up, you’re summarizing what we’re about to talk about, but, yeah. I don’t want to do… I feel like maybe we’re doing too much of that.

Andrea: Yeah. And if you have any comments. These are our first few episodes. Once we go live, just email me at andrea@selfpublishstrong.com and we will tweak and, you know, make things work, so that our listeners, the people who we are actually doing this for, will be happy with how we’re doing things.

Nolan: Yeah, this is our fifth episode?

Andrea: Yeah, our fifth episode.

Nolan: This is our fifth episode. And, like, some of them we do, like, back to back so we don’t get a lot of chance to reflect.

Andrea: Yeah, exactly. So, it won’t be like that for future episodes. We will be splitting things up and it’ll be a week between recording so we’ll have to find a good system for how to remember where we were. We might have to record them back to back anyway, just so we don’t forget the movie in between.

Nolan: Yeah, and we try to, like… beside my comments I have, like, the time in the movie written so that we don’t skip over each other and have to, like, go back and explain things.

Andrea: You mean like in Sleepless in Seattle?

Nolan: That one was really complicated. Anyway, it was really, really different. This one is pretty linear.

Andrea: Yeah, that’s true. A lot of scenes take place in the same setting, same area, so it’s kind of hard to be like, “Back in the kitchen. Wait, I’m still in the kitchen from the scene three scenes earlier.”

Nolan: Yeah. We talked a lot about how different and challenging the structure of that movie was anyway, so…

Andrea: Yeah. Anyway, you have any updates?

Nolan: Not since yesterday.

Andrea: Are you feeling any better? Yesterday he wasn’t feeling great. He had a horrible tickle in his throat that made talking hard.

Nolan: I feel about the same.

Andrea: Okay. Well, we’ll try to go easy on you today.

Nolan: Sounds good! You should do that everyday.

Andrea: No. No, no no. All right, so our quote today is by Albert Einstein and he says, “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” Why did you like this one?

Nolan: Why did I like that one? It was one of the shorter ones. I like the punchy, short ones. This one… I don’t know. It’s pretty self explanatory. I mean, you never get anywhere unless you keep going, so…

Andrea: Yeah. And one of my favorite quotes is from John C. Maxwell. He says… this is not the official quote for the day. But, he says momentum is created and so life is like riding a bicycle, to keep your balance you must keep moving, and so you create the momentum. You create that forward push and so if you don’t pump those pedals, then you’re gonna fall and you’re gonna stop moving forward. As long as you’re making some forward progression, then you’re in a good place.

Nolan: Hopefully. Yes. It’s better than not going anywhere.

Andrea: Yeah, no kidding. Okay, so the tip for today is the second email in your automation sequence. As I said in the last podcast episode, I go much more in depth in these in the automation sequence course. You can also check out my books, The Self Publish Strong books. I do talk about the automation sequences in the one that’s geared to list building. I can’t remember it’s title right now. How to Build a List, something like that.

Nolan: How much does that cost?

Andrea: It’s $5.99 right now still, but it’s supposed to be free. Once I get on the ball and actually, you know, get around and ask Amazon to price match it, then it will be free and it should be free by the time you listen to this, so. But don’t hesitate to pay $5.99 for it. I won’t hate you if you did. Anyway.

So the second email. That first email I said you sent out immediately. You give people their links to download and you tell them what to expect. You give them a brief introduction to yourself. The second email, you send it three days later. And the content of it is a follow-up. So, basically, did you get that free book that I just sent you three days ago and you give the link again to download it. I will tell you, a lot of people do not get that first email and so a follow-up email is a great idea. In the follow-up email, you will give the teeny bit more of an introduction. You’ll also tell people that they can expect to hear from you in the next few days. You want to do that in the first email, too, actually. Let them know that they’ll be hearing from you. So you’ll say I’ll follow up with you in a couple days to make sure you got your free book. Just because you want to set the precedent that you’ll be contacting them again soon so that when you do, it doesn’t bother them as much. Some people it will bother. It doesn’t matter how much you do. Each email you want to make sure that you ask a question. It’s just a basic way for them to respond and correspond with you because the more eager readers interact with you, the more likely they are to buy. I know a lot of authors. They hate the idea of getting emails from readers and it’s overwhelming even for me. I do enjoy getting emails from readers, but it’s still overwhelming. But it does increase your downloads and, I mean, our whole purpose for being authors is to have a readership. I mean, that’s my whole purpose. I like having people buy and download my books. Anyway, do you have any comments on these automation sequence tips?

Nolan: No, no. I think it’s, I mean, it’s good you’re building a relationship. You’re building trust right away because it’s not like, “Hi, I am here to talk to you.” It’s like, “Did you get your free stuff?”

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: “If you didn’t, let me help you.” You know.

Andrea: Yeah, that’s a good point.

Nolan: So.

Andrea: Adding value.

Nolan: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Like, I’ll check up and make sure you got your free stuff and then you do.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: It doesn’t sound like harassment. You know, and you’re not trying to sell them anything. You’re trying to make sure they got the thing you’re trying to give them. If they want it.

Andrea: Exactly. Selling will come later on. Right now, in these first, initial emails, you don’t want to be selling because that comes across as spam. You want to build that relationship of trust first.

All right, so going back to Star Wars. We are at… my next comment is at 58 minutes and 45 seconds.

Nolan: Right. So let’s just recap. We ended the last episode, they’d blasted off from Docking Bay 94. Right?

Andrea: These details, I never remember.

Nolan: Docking Bay 94.

Andrea: Yes.

Nolan: That was at 55 minutes into the movie.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: When that scene starts and then they leave. Okay, so in this scene, this is the… now they’ve taken off from the spaceport and they’re trying to escape and a Star Destroyer tries to stop them and it launches some Fighters. And then Han says he will…

Andrea: The Star Destroyers are the big ones, right?

Nolan: Yes.

Andrea: The big pointy ones?

Nolan: The big, pointy, triangular ones.

Andrea: Okay.

Nolan: It’s coming after him and he’s, like, “Wow, these guys must be more trouble than I thought.” Right, because they said they wanted to avoid Imperial entanglements and he’s, like, “That’s gonna cost you extra.” He didn’t really realize how much trouble they were in, but then they also don’t realize how much trouble he’s in either.

Andrea: Yeah, no kidding.

Nolan: Everyone’s in more trouble than…

Andrea: Than they let on initially.

Nolan: …they let on. Yes. But you get to see him fly a bit and he does his choppy escapes, you know, into hyperspace. I’ll take this opportunity to explain hyperspace. You have to get the coordinates or else you’ll fly into a star or something like that. So it’s a bit of an info dump, but it’s only… it’s kind of short, but you’re right, it is a bit wordy.

Andrea: His dialogue, yeah.

Nolan: Because it’s like he’s trying to cram like a paragraph of useful information and he’s just like, “Di, di, di, di, di.” Yeah, trying to spit it out. So that makes sense. We mentioned that in the last episode.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: How his dialogue tends to be kind of wordy and he’s, like, trying to spit out at the same time as somebody else’s, like, one sentence.

Andrea: Yes, exactly. And the other characters tend to talk over him because naturally, people don’t talk that long in a back-and-forth conversation.

Nolan: Yeah. This is just a few maneuvers. So he does that. It’s really quick. It shows that he’s competent. That they hired the right guy and then they escape into hyperspace. So this is in the Death Star. They’re in orbit around Alderaan now. This shows Leia and Tarkin and…

Andrea: Vader.

Nolan: Vader. All of the sudden, Leia has a fake British accent.

Andrea: Princess Leia?

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: I didn’t even notice.

Nolan: “I recognized your foul stench my Lord…”

Andrea: Oh, yes, that’s right.

Nolan: She’s talking… So, yeah, that happens. Fake British accent. Even with her home planet sitting right there and she knows that they could blow it up, she doesn’t sell out the rebellion. She tells them about a rebel base, but later on you find out that it was a fake.

Andrea: It was a deserted rebel base.

Nolan: And… yeah.

Andrea: Can I make my comment right here?

Nolan: Yes.

Andrea: Okay, so I love this because we’ve got Princess Leia who’s like, “Finally it’s Dantooine, Dantooine.. It’s not her home planet, you know, she finally gives it up and Tarkin’s like, “You may fire when ready.” And she’s like, “What?” and he’s like, “You’re far too trusting.” He’s my favorite bad guy. I mean, he has wonderful character development there. Very great story writing on their part. Because, I mean, destroying Alderaan… It’s, well, as our five-year-old said, “That’s so mean of them!” Oh, did you have a comment on that, too?

Nolan: Yes, so mean of them.

Andrea: “That’s so mean of them! Destroying a planet!” I think that is absolutely fantastic writing. Writers are worried about having actually bad characters and villains.

Nolan: There’s really no reason why he should blow it up. I mean, you think that he’s going to go investigate, and then maybe he’ll blow up Dantooine or maybe blow up Alderaan if he found out that she lied, but he doesn’t. He very casually destroys a whole planet.

Andrea: Which is millions and millions of people. So my point here is, don’t hold back. You don’t have to be graphic. I mean, the whole planet was destroyed. That’s millions of people, but we didn’t see them individually destroyed, you know.

Nolan: What I think people do too often to bad guys now is give their whole backstory about how they got bad and then you have to be sympathetic.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Tarkin’s not a sympathetic bad guy. He’s just a jerk who blows up planets.

Andrea: Yeah. We don’t get a background on him ever.

Nolan: It’s not, like, “Oh, no! His Daddy hit him when his mom was at work,” or something. Working, you know, as a scullery maid or something, washing dishes or something, you know.

Andrea: Yeah, yeah.

Nolan: “He had a hardscrabble life.” You know. You get that person who is right now and they demonstrate his character then.

Andrea: Yeah, we don’t need to have the backstory to know that he’s a bad guy.

Nolan: Yeah, they don’t have his, like, entire Imperial military history.

Andrea: No, we don’t have Darth Vader’s background either, you know. Which is good because…

Nolan: It made him more effective as a bad guy until you find out how whiny he is in prequels that don’t exist.

Andrea: That doesn’t exist. No, but, I mean, it’s good because giving everything upfront makes it so that the readers have nothing to read for. They’re not curious to find out why Darth Vader is who he is. You know, why Princess Leia is naggy and always in charge and…

Nolan: She’s a princess…

Andrea: Okay.

Nolan: …so she’s used to being in charge.

Andrea: Good point.

Nolan: But these bad guys feel a lot like the velociraptors. You see a little bit at a time.

Andrea: Oh, you mean from Jurassic Park.

Nolan: Yeah. They don’t get into the whole, like, why are velociraptors so angry all the time. If only we were nicer while we were raising them. It’s in their nature to be bad and they demonstrate what they want to do.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: You know, I don’t know. Maybe it’s not that much similar, but it kind of reminds me of that.

Andrea: No, I like that .

Nolan: You explain.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: They are showing, not telling.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: You know what I mean? I feel like too much backstory is telling.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: And it bogs it down. There you go. That’s my point, though. It’s like you can see they’re bad then. They have previous things that show that they are bad, you know. They escalated it and they show how these people interact with each other, you know, like Leia and Tarkin, and then Leia and Vader, and Tarkin and Vader, you know, and then all of them as a group, you know. Because she just backs up and then Vader just holds her there while her planet gets blown up and he doesn’t say anything. He doesn’t hurt her, but doesn’t let her go anywhere.

Andrea: Makes her watch.

Nolan: Something that really bothers me about modern bad guys. It actually removes the depth of my interpretation of who they are by explicitly telling me everything about them.

Andrea: Well, it tells people instead of shows.

Nolan: Exactly. So, like…

Andrea: You want to leave some things up to the reader’s imagination.

Nolan: Yeah, it’s like, I asked the question myself. Man, why are these people so evil? You know. There you go. I don’t know. Sometimes leaving out details is actually more effective.

So , we don’t know a lot about The Force right now, but when Alderaan gets blown up, we switch back to the Millennium Falcon and everybody on board. Kenobi’s trying to teach Luke how to use The Force, and he just sits down and grabs his head and that’s when he senses Alderaan being destroyed.

Andrea: Oh, yeah. All the voices cry out at once and then are silenced.

Nolan: Yeah. You know, that’s something we didn’t know he could do.

Andrea: Yeah. Then we’ve got a scene here where Obi-Wan Kenobi hasn’t put the blast shield down. He’s, like, “With the blast shield I can’t see!” and that’s a great showing of what The Force can do.

Nolan: Right. It shows a lot about what The Force can do. Two different ways. He can sense those people dying halfway across the galaxy or whatever and then, you know, well, it’s kind of the same thing because Luke doesn’t need to see with his eyes to sense what’s happening around him.

Andrea: Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Nolan: It shows the mentor relationship as well. Like, he’s instructing them on how to use The Force, and it shows Han’s skepticism.

Andrea: Yes.

Nolan: He’s a very cynical character.

Andrea: Yep.

Nolan: He’s like, “I’ve never seen anything like The Force. Ever”

Andrea: He’s, like, that’s not even a real person, I don’t see why it’s different from a real person. I mean, real blasts, real lasers coming, and you’re able to block it from a robot that’s doing it randomly. Then why not from a human who’s doing it randomly as well?

Nolan: Like when he says, yeah, like, he was against remotes it’s one thing, mainly because they follow the program. You can predict, I guess. I don’t know.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: I just made a note that they arrived at Alderaan and it’s an asteroid belt instead of a planet.

Andrea: Yeah, and nobody believes the planet has been destroyed. We do because we just saw it, but we wouldn’t have otherwise. So, we can empathize with the characters because we just watched the world get blown up. I mean, what has the power to destroy an entire planet?

Nolan: Nothing did up to that point. So they wouldn’t be aware of it. So they are completely clueless about it.

Andrea: Yeah. So we’ve got these characters that are showing again. You know, instead of them telling us, “Oh, wow, I’m surprised,” they’re actually acting surprised. Like, no way can a planet get destroyed.

Nolan: But it had to be because there’s enough debris here to make up a planet and there’s no planet.

Andrea: Yeah, exactly.

Nolan: A Tie Fighter shoots at them and then runs off and they chase it. They’re trying to chase it so that it can’t report back to the Empire that they were there. They see that it’s heading towards the moon, but then they realize it’s not a moon. It’s the Death Star.

Andrea: It’s a spaceship.

Nolan: It is a spaceship. Because it does move around. Actually, it goes to other planets. They get caught in its tractor beam and can’t escape.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Obi-Wan says, “There are alternatives to fighting.”

Andrea: Yes, that’s his character right there.

Nolan: Exactly.

Andrea: So, they’ve been pretty true to his character. When he needs to, he gets things done, but he avoids it as much as possible.

Nolan: Yep.

Andrea: I wonder if that’s what’s his face? Alec Guinness into the character. He is a stage actor.

Nolan: Act-or.

Andrea: Then I’ve got my comment here, is that the music. There’s even a bad feeling about this. There, again, they’re showing us how the characters feel with the mood and telling us how to feel with the music and everything. You can do that with your writing by, you know, the verbs and the action words that you use that basically depict how things feel. So using all five senses. If something is creepy, then use all five senses to show that it’s creepy, you know. You know, the way the character feels, like goosebumps, and then smells, and the wind and chilliness. Things like that. Just things that can show if something is emotional or strong or creepy or whatever.

Nolan: You don’t get a soundtrack, but you do get to describe how things sound.

Andrea: Yeah, and you can’t do that in a movie. They can’t do that unless they are, like, a silent show.

Nolan: But, I mean, you still use the sense of sound to portray an emotion.

Andrea: Yup.

Nolan: You indicate what they should, you know.

Andrea: Yeah. So, we’ve got Darth Vader. He’s like, “I sense a presence I have not felt since.” That’s world building, character development. It just shows us how that Darth Vader… It just tells us the Darth Vader and Obi-Wan know each other, you know. They’ve worked together. Because if it’s a feeling or a person’s presence that Darth Vader has sensed before, you know that he’s been intimate. They have not been intimate!

Nolan: Oh, my. But he does sense Kenobi and so it’s not, like, just a million voices crying out. It’s one voice he can sense.

Andrea: And he’s got The Force.

Nolan: Yeah. So he’s able to pick out someone specifically. Before, we’re just… Like, there’s a lot of things happening. That’s a big thing happening, but this is very specific. Okay. So now, the Millennium Falcon’s been captured. It’s hit, and they decide to hide. They use some subterfuge.

Andrea: Yes. “Never through I’d be smuggling myself in here.”

Nolan: Yeah. Yes, they use subterfuge to disguise themselves as stormtroopers and escape capture, at least temporarily.

Andrea: One thing before this, Obi-Wan says to Luke, “The Force will be with you always.” It’s great foreshadowing. He knows he’s going to die.

Nolan: Right. He also says you’re pathway is different… I can’t read my own handwriting. Anyway. He says their paths are different.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: As well, before he goes to shut down the tractor beam, before he disables it.

Andrea: So he knows that what they’re coming to… They’re not going to be… He knows that they’re not going to continue together. So. Does The Force give them the ability to see the future?

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: But I know Yoda. Yoda can.

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: “The future’s murky with this one.”

Nolan: Yeah. It’s not super accurate all the time.

Andrea: That’s like Alice in Twilight.

Nolan: Yes, just like that.

Andrea: Did I just combine Twilight and Star Wars? Are you offended?

Nolan: Just a little sad.

Andrea: That it’s come to this. My comment is Obi-Wan should’ve sensed Leia’s presence, by the way.

Nolan: It seems like he should have. I mean, he doesn’t know her very well personally.

Andrea: But she’s related to two people that he knows very well.

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: Darth Vader and Luke and she’s got The Force. We know from the third movie, or sixth movie.

Nolan: That’s true.

Andrea: That’s on you, Lucas!

Nolan: Han says he prefers a straight fight to all this sneaking around, which is true. He’s pretty reckless. Oh, and then, so they find out that the princess is there. The one in the message, Princess Leia. They’re like, “She’s in prison!” and he’s like, “Better her than me!” They do complain about, like, “You’re only out for yourself,” and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, he kind of is. Him and Chewie anyway.

Andrea: And then another thing. When they’re actually dressed in the stormtroopers’ outfits and they are on their way to the prisoner doc, they’re taking Chewie there. They get ready to get off the elevator and the door opens behind them. I thought that was a great touch just to show that they don’t know their way around, and…

Nolan: They kind of… They motion, like, you want on the elevator? To, like, random people. They’re like, I don’t know.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: They’re very casual. They’re not as stiff as the other stormtroopers.

Andrea: Yeah, and then when they get to the actual prison dock, they’re facing the camera and the doors open behind them and the people there… I mean, if they’re stormtroopers they’d know their way around. They would know that the door opens behind them for that particular place.

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: I just think that little touch just kind of shows that they don’t know what they’re doing and it’s foreshadowing for those poor people in there that die.

Nolan: I do have one other comment, though, about the elevators. They’re next to the shaft of infinite death.

Andrea: Oh, yes.

Nolan: There are actual handrails.

Andrea: There are, and you actually commented, “There’s handrails there!”

Nolan: There are almost no handrails anywhere in Star Wars. It’s ridiculous.

Andrea: People don’t fall in Star Wars, except they do.

Nolan: They do all the time. They fall all the time. There are no handrails on the things they fall off…

Andrea: It’s aesthetic, okay? It’s prettier to not have them.

Nolan: Nobody would insure that place. It’s ridiculous.

Andrea: No, they would not, no.

Nolan: So, just previous to this, they plan to break Leia out. That’s why they’re going on the elevator. So they go on the elevator and go to the detention block where she is. And then they have a horrible excuse for why they are there and they end up mowing everyone down. And then they’re not very subtle about that. So Han got his straight fight anyways. And they’re alerted to their presence there. The Imperials. They know that they’re gonna get a bunch of stormtroopers coming soon.

Andrea: Yeah, yeah. I got a comment there at an hour 15 minutes and this… I love this because Han, about the reactor leak, you know, when they’re trying to…

Nolan: There’s no reactor leaks generally in prisons.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: There’s no reactors to have leaks in prisons.

Andrea: So, when he’s trying to get them to not come investigate, he doesn’t handle it. He doesn’t handle surprises well. He handles his element well, so you can throw Tie Fighters at him while he’s in his plane and he can handle that. But the Princess being there, he didn’t handle that well. He, like, he shoots the thing instead of trying to explain away. You know, because he doesn’t handle that well, you know. He doesn’t know how to work around it, so he goes back to what he does, you know. He pulls a gun out and shoots, you know.

Nolan: Yeah. Shoots first.

Andrea: Yes. So you throw stuff at him he doesn’t know and he stumbles, but when you put him in his element, he’s very… he reacts well. He’s proactive.

Nolan: Yeah, he has a specific set of skills.

Andrea: Yes. Very particular.

Nolan: Yeah, a very particular set of skills. As long as he’s within the skill set, he is very comfortable and confident.

Andrea: Yep.

Nolan: Luke and Leia meet for the first time.

Andrea: Yes.

Nolan: An hour and 15 minutes-ish. Let’s see… so then they meet and she’s like, you know, kind of makes fun of him and he’s like, “No, we’re here to rescue you, we have Kenobi.” Then she’s like, “Great, let’s go.” They leave.

Andrea: And she takes over.

Nolan: Basically.

Andrea: She tries to.

Nolan: So, then, Tarkin’s alerted that the princess has escaped. Vader’s there and he’s like, “Hey, I think Kenobi’s here.” He’s like, No way.” And that’s when they tell him the princess has escaped. Then he’s, “For sure?” and he’s like, “Yep. Ben is here and I’m going to go find him.”

Andrea: Yes. Yup. And that’s when Tarkin’s obviously going to be like, “Okay, so there was something behind your sensing.” He’s like, “You’re such an old religious folk,” you know.

Nolan: Yeah. “He must be dead by now.” He’s like, “Nope.”

Andrea: “Nope, I hear him. I felt him.” So, okay, so trying to escape the cellblock, you know. They have that little fight there. The droids. I love that it ups the ante. It’s a great way to make things more interesting. The droids can’t help them escape, you know, because he turned off his little thing. It’s C-3PO being true to himself. He’s being forgetful and being annoying, but it makes the show more interesting. It makes everything… So it does two things. It shows him being himself still, but then also increases the intensity.

Nolan: Right, because they’re calling for help and there’s no one on the other line.

Andrea: Yep.

Nolan: So now Han and Leia meet for the first time. There is immediate friction.

Andrea: I love it! That’s so great for romance.

Nolan: Yeah. And they have the garbage compactor scene and, you know, she’s like, “Into the garbage chute, Flyboy!” And, like, she starts bossing him around and, like… Anyway, lots of banter.

Andrea: Yeah, yeah, no, seriously, romance… like, some my favorite romance books are where the characters hate each other at the start. You know, it’s so much fun having them go from hate to falling in love.

Nolan: It gives them more of an arc.

Andrea: Yeah. And, like, in the second movie when she’s, like, trying to… “Leave me alone!” He kisses her and she’s like all twitterpated, you know, you can kind of tell. I love it! It’s really awesome.

My question here is, who is the main character of this movie? Who has the greatest character growth?

Nolan: Who has the greatest character growth? This may be a question for the end.

Andrea: But we’re not talking about, like, all three. That was what I was…

Nolan: I mean the end of this movie.

Andrea: Oh, the end of this movie. That’s true.

Nolan: Up to this point? Nobody…

Andrea: Nobody’s really grown. Yeah. Obi-Wan died. That’s some character growth.

Nolan: He hasn’t quite died…

Andrea: Oh, yes, sorry. By the way. Obi-Wan hasn’t died yet. I didn’t spoil the…

Nolan: Oh, no. So a quick summary. So R2 and C-3PO save them from the trash compactor. Ninja Kenobi sneaks around. Does this, like, acrobatic stuff. He’s, like, out on the edge of this… another infinite abyss…

Andrea: Oh, yeah. No railings.

Nolan: …with no handrails. But he uses his, like, mind trick thingy and he distracts some guards so he doesn’t have to kill them, and then does his job.

Andrea: Yep.

Nolan: And then, so, at one hour and 26 minutes, Leia and Han have some more friction.

Andrea: I have a comment on that one right there.

Nolan: No reward is worth this.

Andrea: Yes, get this moving carpet out of my way.

Nolan: He’s mentioned money multiple times and then he’s like, forget it. The thing I want most is not worth it now.

Andrea: He’s like, I don’t want to… I can’t put up with this, but he’s stuck. He has no choice, you know. They are stuck together. That’s great adhesion, you know. A romance story having the two characters be stuck together. So we’ve got a power struggle between Han and Leia. They’re both entitled brats, you know. And they both demand to be in charge. Leia’s a Princess and Han has clawed his way up to the top. So they both technically deserve to be in charge, you know.

Nolan: He is the captain of the ship they’re trying to escape on.

Andrea: And she’s the princess, you know. So. Anyway, I just love that.

Nolan: Yep. So, they come across some stormtroopers in their attempt to escape, and the first thing Han does is shoot one and then run after them.

Andrea: Yes.

Nolan: So.

Andrea: And then we see them running back yelling, you know.

Nolan: Very, very straightforward. He’s a very straightforward person.

Andrea: Yeah, that’s a really good point. Like, the characters in this show, even if they’re not horribly developed, they’re all very true to their characters, you know. They don’t step out of character.

Nolan: They’re true to their characters, even when it’s not to their advantage.

Andrea: Yes, exactly.

Nolan: Like, that was stupid. But he did it because that’s what he would do.

Andrea: Yeah, this is really good writing.

Nolan: It’s not like all of a sudden he decided to be sneaky because it would be better for him at that point, or maybe not when they come face to face with them, but…

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: You know, he could’ve just shot them and then chased them around a corner and then run around his own corner the other way just enough to scare them off. You know, I don’t know.

Andrea: You know, for romance writers it’s a lot easier to stay true to a character because you usually only have two main characters and then a very small handful of sub-characters. But, like, in a science fiction novel where they usually deal with multiple POVs, you know, it’s hard. I mean, it’s applaudable to keep characters in line in something like this where there’s so many different characters and threads that we’re following.

Nolan: Space opera does typically have many characters.

Andrea: Yeah. Okay, so, my comment when we were watching this at an hour and 27 minutes, they know that their prisoners are important. Like Leia, I mean, she’s huge and, you know, but she’s escaped so why aren’t there hoards of stormtroopers around the ship. That’s foreshadowing. I didn’t realize it because last time I watched this movie, while watching it in-depth and actually analyzing it, was a long time ago and so the fact that there aren’t hoards of stormtroopers around the ship is foreshadowing.

Nolan: Kenobi and Vader meet.

Andrea: Yeah. Oh, I’ve got that in a minute. By the way, just a little bit of trivia, when Luke and Leia swing across the great divide…

Nolan: The chasm.

Andrea: …you know, that has no railings.

Nolan: The railingless… On a bridge with no handrails.

Andrea: Yes, when they swing aside, they didn’t do body doubles and they did it in one take which I thought was pretty impressive, you know, because he’s actually holding onto the rope. So no body doubles and one take.

Nolan: That sounds like that would… Maybe he had a harness. Because that cable’s really tiny.

Andrea: I know. No, no, no. Don’t. Don’t ruin it for me.

Nolan: Okay. Sorry.

Andrea: No harnesses. They did it all. No help. All right. Fine. Obi-Wan and Vader meet.

Nolan: Okay.

Andrea: We can move on.

Nolan: So they have some dialogue, right. You know, the circle is now complete. You know, the last time we met I was the learner…

Andrea and Nolan: Now I’m the master.

Nolan: So, you know, it shows that he was inferior the last time they encountered. And then he’s for sure gonna win this time.

Andrea: Yeah, well, of course he’s for sure gonna win because Obi-Wan gives him a easy way out.

Nolan: Yes, but he says, you know…

Andrea: You strike me down and I’ll be far more powerful.

Nolan: Right, exactly. And Vader doesn’t get that. He’s like, of course you’re not going to be more powerful. You’re going to be dead.

Andrea: Which is weird because Vader is a huge student of The Force, you know. Why doesn’t he know this? If you consider the three episodes, the newer ones, they talk about dying and how…

Nolan: But not with him.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: He never has any of those experiences. It’s Obi-Wan that does.

Andrea: That’s true.

Nolan: And it’s Yoda that does.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Because Qui-Gon talks to Yoda. We don’t see that, but he says he has contacted Qui-Gon and that Yoda will teach Obi-Wan how to do it.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: So he learns.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: And he’s like, “Hey, go for it. I’m old anyway.”

Andrea: Vader is calm. He’s standing still. He’s not moving. Obi-Wan’s kind of, like, a little anxious on his feet. I thought that’s kind of an interesting thing. Obi-Wan seems nervous and anxious and Vader is calm and…

Nolan: He’s direct.

Andrea: Yes.
Nolan: Let’s say he goes right at it.

Andrea: A tip here, right now, right here. With action scenes, we’ve got our first lightsaber fight. When you’re writing an action scene, especially sword fighting, don’t describe every single action. Don’t say, like, I struck his sword and then he struck my sword and then I struck his sword and then he struck my sword. You want to describe a few of them, but focus on the gains and then the pain where they get hurt. Their wins, basically. So throw in a few actions and descriptions here and there, like, he hit my arm and it hurt really bad or whatever. But…

Nolan: The consequences of the moves that they do.

Andrea: Yeah. So we we fought back and forth for several moments, and, you know, he pushed me into a corner, but I was able to get out. But that’s, I mean, the reader’s envisioning lots of blows back and forth. You don’t describe those blows, you know.

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: Focus on emotions and on the gains.

Nolan: There are some genres where you can get more in-depth, like the military and…

Andrea: Military is where it actually matters.

Nolan: Then maybe you can, but generally speaking most people don’t want that. It can bog down the action scene and actually make it less dynamic.

Andrea: Yeah. Consider using short and quick sentences because shortness speeds up the reading and long sentences slows it down. You can vary it. You know, throw in a couple long sentences in here every now and then just to keep readers… just to make them impatient because it keeps them going, but fast, short sentences are really good for action.

Nolan: Yup.

Andrea: I’ve got Darth Vader and Obi-Wan. They’re giving little clues to their relationship which is more world building. Just their conversation back and forth while they’re fighting.

Nolan: They hint at bigger things, yeah.

Andrea: Yes. Those bigger things I don’t feel like they were ever resolved for me. When I was watching the movie growing up, I imagined so much more than what we end up having with Anakin and…

Nolan: We all did.

Andrea: Okay, so an hour and 32 minutes. Luke blasts the doors before Darth can get through. This is a great way to keep the real threat away because Darth Vader is the real threat. He gets there, they’re all dead, you know.

Nolan: Right. Yeah, there’s no way they could do anything about that.

Andrea: You can’t have your ultimate showdown with the main bad guy this far into the beginning.

Nolan: It’s a plausible way to delay the final showdown.

Andrea: Yep.

Nolan: But, anyway, yeah, Kenobi dies and then right away, Luke hears his voice.

Andrea: “Run, Luke, run!”

Nolan: Right, so right away there is the payoff, I guess, you know. So, anyway, yes.

Andrea: And then Luke doesn’t even ask him what’s on the other side. I mean, he didn’t even consider afterlife.

Nolan: What’s it like? Pew-pew-pew-pew!

Andrea: Come on, Luke!

Nolan: Anyway, but they make their escape. Sort of.

Andrea: Yeah, Leia has perfect lipstick and hair throughout all of the prison scenes.

Nolan: Through all of her being tortured.

Andrea: Yes, perfect lipstick and hair. It’s very important that a lady looks like a lady.

Nolan: Yeah. Well, I don’t know if the cinnamon bun hair is perfect. It was a mistake…

Andrea: When it was created.

Nolan: They continued in their mistake.

Andrea: C-3PO, we’ve got a comment here. “I think I’m melting. This is all your fault.” C-3PO is a horrible character.

Nolan: Yes, he’s complaining a bunch. This is a scene…

Andrea: This is when they do the Tie Fighter scene.

Nolan: Yeah, there’s four Tie Fighters and then, you know, Han the experienced one and Luke, the new kid, both take down two.

Andrea: Yeah. And Han’s like, “Great, kid. Don’t get cocky.”

Nolan: Yeah, but, I mean, it shows that, like, Luke is pretty good because, like, the experienced person did something and he matched it.

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah.

Nolan: But he still doesn’t fly anything.

Andrea: Nope. He doesn’t. He has good aim. With electronic seventies technology.

Nolan: Yes. This very advanced computer targeting screens. Okay, so, then it cuts back to the Death Star where Tarkin and Vader are talking and he’s like, “Well, they’re gone. There’s a homing device. I hope this works.”

Andrea: Yes, and that right there is the conclusion of my foreshadowing. When we saw that scene, I was like, “Oh, so that’s what it was. Okay. So that’s why they weren’t stormtroopers all around.” They actually, you know, they were okay with them escaping so they would take them to the rebel base.

Nolan: Yes, and Leia says they must be tracking us or something .

Andrea: “They let us get away.”

Nolan: Yeah. “There’s no other explanation for the ease of our escape.”

Andrea: Han is insulted. Like, “You call that easy?”

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: Where are you? I’ve got a comment on an hour and 37 minutes.

Nolan: “I’m in it for the money.”

Andrea: Yes. So she’s like, “If money’s all you want, then that’s what you’ll receive.” And he’s like, “What’s wrong with that?”

Nolan: Yeah, I know.

Andrea: I love his character. He’s such a mercenary.

Nolan: Yes. And then Luke and Han have an interaction where he’s like, “What do you think, a princess?”

Andrea: “A guy like me?”

Nolan: No.

Andrea: And then Han, he kind of gets this, like, yeah, this little smile, like, yeah, you’ve got a thing for our princess.

Nolan: Well, you know. He likes messing with the kid.

Andrea: Okay, so Princess Leia is like, “We’ve got the data from R2-D2. It’s our only hope.” And I’m like, but Obi-Wan Kenobi was their only hope. And he’s dead. That would be so sad.

Nolan: They go from one only hope to another.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: It’s called A New Hope.

Andrea: True. Good point. We paused the movie an hour and 41 minutes to put the kids to bed.

Nolan: Right, so they do have a briefing about the Death Star. They discuss its defenses. The defenses of the Death Star are designed to take on fleets.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Not just little ships. So they were thinking big scale, not subtlety. So, again, the smaller force is able to do something against the bigger, badder force.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: And it, you know, shows the arrogance of the Empire.

Andrea: Yeah. They built something that can’t possibly be destroyed. And yet it has an error. It has a weakness.

Nolan: Yes.

Andrea: Okay, so we’ve got Han who is packing up his reward, and that’s a lot of money if all those boxes are his money. That’s a lot of money.

Nolan: That’s a lot of money.

Andrea: He’s packing it into his ship and he’s like, “I’m leaving.” And he’s like, “What good is a reward if you’re not around use it?” you know.

Nolan: Yup. They think he’s just greedy. They don’t know that he’s got a bounty on his head.

Andrea: Yeah. They don’t know that if he survives he can be killed, if he doesn’t get the money to…

Nolan: Yeah, exactly. They just think it’s greed, but it’s not till the next movie where they find out that it’s not just greed. It’s him trying to survive.

Andrea: Yeah, exactly. I’ve got a comment…

Nolan: He does have an arc here because he invites Luke to go with him.

Andrea: Oh, that’s true. Yeah. He’s like, “They’re all going to die. Why don’t you come with me?” You know, I can use you, you know

Nolan: Yeah. “You’re a good enough fighter.” So, you know, he’s developed a relationship, a positive relationship with Luke.

Andrea: Yeah. He probably feels a little bit bad for Luke, too. because his mentor’s dead. He’s like, “Hey, I’m willing to be your mentor.”

Nolan: But it’s, I don’t want to say, a selfless thing but it’s, you know, he made an offer.

Andrea: Yeah. It’s a little bit of a progression in his personality and his character. We’ve got them taking off at an hour 44 minutes and… an hour 44.9. Where I thought that was funny, the take off. Luke and Wedge and all those guys are taking off. It’s way dragged out here. It’s like they’re establishing the difficulty and they never have to revisit it again.

Nolan: Yeah. Yeah. They do a lot of, like, prep work to launch the fighters. “Open the S-foils” and all that stuff. Here’s my comment that they haven’t shown him pilot anything, but they give him an X-wing for the most dangerous mission they’ve ever gone.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Is there literally no one else?

Andrea: Well, there’s… No. I mean, the commander guy’s like, “Are you sure you can handle this?” and Biggs is like, “Luke is the best pilot, he can totally do this.” And he’s like, “All right.” And that’s all it took. Well, they are hard-pressed. They don’t have enough people.

Nolan: I know they don’t have enough people, but it’s like some rando… they just literally met.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Like, they don’t have any trainee pilots that at least have been in one before?

Andrea: Yeah, no kidding.

Nolan: He’s never even been in one before.

Andrea: Okay, so then we’ve got… My question here, why are there no enemy Tie Fighters? I was like, “Those idiots,” and then they answered that. They actually didn’t believe that… Okay, so what they basically say is that they’re flying too quickly and our guns can’t track them.

Nolan: Right, they have these big, heavy cannons to take on starships but they didn’t send big battleships, they sent fighters.

Andrea: Exactly. So they didn’t expect little ships to try to attack them or kill them, you know. Arrogance again on their part.

Nolan: I love Biggs’s sweet seventies mustache.

Andrea: Oh, geeze. My husband tried to pull off a sweet seventies mustache.

Nolan: I looked kind of like a Colombian drug lord I would say.

Andrea: Yes, you did.

Nolan: Because I have, like, a burnt orange leather jacket from the seventies. It was my friend’s grandpa’s leather jacket so it had, like, the really pointy lapels. It was awesome. And I had, like, the wide… what? I had a really wide, wide mustache.

Andrea: It was so sexy.

Nolan: I wanted the ones that go past the end of your mouth. And I had my hair slicked back. I felt like a drug lord. I did.

Andrea: You looked like a drug lord. Not now. There was an -ed at the end of that look that didn’t quite come out.

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: Anyway. Okay, so… I have “all get to ships.” I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean. So I’m going to go on to “when Porkins dies and a generation of internet memes is born.”

Nolan: Yeah, that guy just can’t stop dying in movies. He dies in Batman.

Andrea: Poor Porkins.

Nolan: Yeah. In 1989? Where he plays Eckhardt and he dies in that, too. The Joker shoots him. Too bad.

Andrea: And then an hour and 50 minutes, the guns, they’ve stopped. But they figure out really, really quickly that when the guns stop it’s because they’ve got their little fighter ships there. So they’re like, “Watch out for enemy fighters.” So our characters are not stupid, you know. I like that they make them… they figure out why things are happening really quickly instead of the readers being like, “Oh, come on, that’s obvious,” you know.

Nolan: Yeah. So there are two try/fail cycles.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: We can talk about. And then…

Andrea: I’ve got the try/fail cycle here at an hour 52 minutes.

Nolan: Okay.

Andrea: That’s good.

Nolan: So there’s that and then also Luke, trust your feelings. So there’s a little foreshadowing. So Luke randomly just starts shooting as soon as he hears that: “Trust your feelings.”

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: And it ends up helping them, like it stops one of the…

Andrea: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nolan: But he uses his scanner… I have it written here “uses scanner in dogfight helping Biggs.” So he’s still using his instruments. He’s not relying entirely…

Andrea: On The Force. It’s because he’s, you know…

Nolan: A little new at it.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Yes. Let’s do the try/fail cycle. This is perfect.

Andrea: Before we do that, though, I need to make a comment on an hour 51 minutes.

Nolan: Okay.

Andrea: What we can learn from Star Wars: Doubt leads to death.

Nolan: Okay. Never doubt yourself, always recklessly…

Andrea: Never doubt yourself. “I can’t keep them off! I can’t keep them off…”

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: Everybody who doubts in Star Wars dies. When they’re being chased by…

Nolan: Believe in yourself and your shield won’t fail.

Andrea: Believe in yourself and you’ll be able to, you know, outrace the enemy fighter.

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: Anyway, try/fail cycle. It’s very basic writing, but we wanted to give this podcast to people who are intermediate, advanced and even advanced authors sometimes forget about it, you know. So what is the try/fail cycle, Nolan?

Nolan: The good guys shouldn’t succeed at everything they do on the first try because it’s boring.

Andrea: Yes.

Nolan: Rey.

Andrea: Rey who?

Nolan: From the new Star Wars movies.

Andrea: Rey? Oh, the chick?

Nolan: Anyway, so, yeah. They try to blow up the Death Star. They send in the first wave, the white wings. The fail and get blown up. The red leader goes in.

Andrea: He tries to shoot it and misses.

Nolan: Yeah, it impacts on the surface. They all get blown up.

Andrea: Yep.

Nolan: And then it’s basically Luke and a couple other dudes…

Andrea: Biggs and Wedge.

Nolan: And they go in and Wedge gets hit, but he escapes. Biggs dies.

Andrea: The mustache is what killed him. You don’t appreciate my comment?

Nolan: I love that everyone in Rogue One had a mustache, too, by the way.

Andrea: So you did like something about Rogue One.

Nolan: No, it’s an okay movie. Yeah. I love the aesthetic. They made it fit very well with the feeling of the earlier Star Wars.

Andrea: Yeah, yeah.

Nolan: By earlier I mean earlier when they’re made, not chronologically. The newer ones were too plasticy feeling. The original trilogy technology felt more used.

Andrea: Yep.

Nolan: And a little grittier.

Andrea: So we need to finish that try/fail cycle comment.

Nolan: Try/fail. So, then, Han comes back.

Andrea: That’s at a minute and 57, an hour 57.

Nolan: It’s the end of the try/fail because then they succeed at this.

Andrea: Oh, that’s right. Han comes back.

Nolan: Han comes back. He didn’t run away and use his money. Character arc. Good stuff.

Andrea: No, it’s really good stuff. His character is complete.

Nolan: He changed his mind. Decided he couldn’t…

Andrea: He does a 360. Just kidding. A 180.

Nolan: More like a 120, probably.

Andrea: Yeah, that’s true. He’s not completely, you know. I would say by the beginning of the next movie, though, you know. Because he goes out to save Luke, you know. Until he risks his life to save Luke, he’s always looking out for himself, but he also includes the other people in his family.

Nolan: Yes. And then, so, he saves Luke and then Luke has that opportunity to take the shot that destroys the Death Star.

Andrea: Yeah. Yup.

Nolan: So, this is a classic try/fail cycle because they literally do it three times. Fail, fail, succeed.

Andrea: Yes.

Nolan: And Luke doesn’t use his scanner. He uses his instincts.

Andrea: He uses The Force.

Nolan: He uses The Force.

Andrea: “Use the fork, Luke.” The fork?

Nolan: Use the fork.

Andrea: And Obi-Wan, who didn’t want to be known for this role, is known for those you “Use The Force,” “May The Force be with you.”

Nolan: He’s known as being a disembodied voice instead of a Shakespearean actor.

Andrea: Yes.

Nolan: So, you know, he – Luke – grew in that as well to trust his…

Andrea: His feelings, his instincts.

Nolan: Yes. So there you go. That’s two in one.

Andrea: And during all the scenes, Luke is twisting random dials and turning random knobs and doing also sorts of sciency things in his ship.

Nolan: Sciency things. But that’s his arc, too. He went from not really understanding The Force and sometimes using it and sometimes not, to using it and succeeding very big with it.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: So there you go. He can now use The Force and Han had his character arc and Obi-Wan is dead. So I guess that’s an arc.

Andrea: Princess Leia didn’t have a character arc. She goes from being kidnapped to being free and that is a character arc of sorts.

Nolan: It’s a plot thing that happened to her, but she doesn’t really change as a person. That is more in the second.

Andrea: In the second and third movie, yeah. So a little comment here. When Darth goes spinning off, George Lucas insisted – absolutely insisted – that be added in. The studio and the producers, none of them wanted it there because it would basically tell viewers that there was a possible sequel coming and back then sequels were just money grabs and they didn’t actually succeed at anything. And, yet, we all know that the next Star Wars movie is the best one out of all of them, you know.

Nolan: I agree with you, but everyone may not.

Andrea: Most people do. So they added it in. They didn’t want a sequel. They didn’t think was a good idea, but it ended up being a fantastic idea. So, I mean, can you imagine if they’d had Darth Vader die and not spin off? You know, that would’ve ruined everything. I love Darth Vader.

Nolan: Me, too.

Andrea: Do you have any more comments on the movie?

Nolan: Nope.

Andrea: I’ve got a comment. When they’re getting the awards and they’re walking past all of the troops and all the fighters… Where were those people for the actual fight?

Nolan: They didn’t have that many X-wings.

Andrea: Okay, because I was like, well, there’s all their fighters. They’re all waiting around for the awards ceremony.

Nolan: They put that together pretty quick. They were in too much of a hurry to give out medals. Not enough to do the fighting. Like, “I did a really good job!”

Nolan and Andrea: “Yay!”

Andrea: R2 survives. So did pretty much everyone. So we’ve got all the redshirts who died, but… Is that what you call them? The redshirts?

Nolan: That’s a Star Trek thing, yes.

Andrea: Was it? The redshirts? I was wondering where you got that from. The random people who die, you know. You’ve gotta have random people die and it’s okay if your main characters don’t die.

Nolan: Yeah.

Andrea: You can still have a huge battle at the end of your stories and not have main characters die. I’m looking at you, Stephenie Meyer. Breaking Dawn.

Nolan: Yes, I know.

Andrea: A huge battle that didn’t happen.

Nolan: It didn’t. It was all in your mind.

Andrea: We’re going to go into those ones, except for Breaking Dawn. I hate that movie. Anyways. Let’s do a recap on the movie. So…

Nolan: Okay. Recap. So. A lot of good. This movie is very straightforward. It’s pacing… I mean, there’s a few slow spots, but I guess that’s okay because you can’t have action all the time.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: I think they lingered too much in, like…

Andrea: The beginning.

Nolan: …the beginning. And then, like, some of the space battles parts where they’re getting their crap together.

Andrea: Well, I mean, comparing it to Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park starts with the action just like this one. Jurassic Park has a lot of slow scenes before…

Nolan: It does, but I feel like they’re… The characters interacting in a way that isn’t all…

Andrea: Oh, yeah, that’s right.

Nolan: Yes, this was like…

Andrea: We’re just watching little creatures move around.

Nolan: Yeah, exactly. Nobody is really doing anyway, but at least they’re talking and then you can see them interact with each other and then once the problems start, you see who that character was and would react in the situations and feel genuine.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: You know how they are before the bad thing happens and then they continue as who they are, but under pressure through that.

Andrea: Are you talking about in – sorry – Star Wars or in Jurassic Park?

Nolan: In Jurassic Park.

Andrea: Okay.

Nolan: This is more action-adventure.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Lots of traveling. So it’s, you know, maybe not quite that straightforward, but generally speaking, you introduce your characters and then you introduce the problem, and then see how the characters react.

Andrea: Yeah. There’s always exceptions to how you can introduce the action and then learn who the characters are through that, but…

Nolan: Yeah, you do a little bit…

Andrea: People care more about characters when they know a little bit about them. When they have reason to feel sympathy for them.

Nolan: Yeah, because Jurassic Park, I mean, had action at the beginning, but you don’t know anything about anything.

Andrea: Yup. Exactly.

Nolan: Like, you don’t know that, like, Muldoon is, like, a guy gonna be in the movie.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Like, some rando gets, like, torn up by a velociraptor, but you don’t really see it. But it establishes the feel of the movie immediately. And that’s actually at the beginning of Star Wars, right? Because you have the little ship against the big ship and then at the end, it’s a little ship against the big ship. A bunch of little ships. People have character arcs in this movie, but they’re not big ones. I think that more character development happens throughout the entire series.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: It’s more significant than this, but they do…

Andrea: The kids get a start.

Nolan: There is some change and I’d say Han probably has the biggest change of anyone.

Andrea: Yeah, Han and Obi-Wan. Death is a pretty big change.

Nolan: Yeah, but he’s still him, but dead.

Andrea: Yeah, but there’s still character. I mean, he’s still the little ghost shadow version of himself talking to Luke, so he’s still a character in the show.

Nolan: He’s still a character, but he’s still the same character, just that…

Andrea: He is.

Nolan: So that’s interesting, actually, that the person with the greatest change is not the main character.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Which I would say is Luke.

Andrea: I would say that across the whole series, he does end up having quite a bit of character change. You know, by the end of the last movie when I had a huge crush on him. I had a crush on him and Han Solo. I mean, hello!

Nolan: Well, I mean, he’s Han Solo and…

Andrea: Indiana Jones?

Nolan: Indiana Jones.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: Yeah. I mean, what’s his face is Gandalf and Magneto.

Andrea: Yes.

Nolan: So…

Andrea: Okay, so my takeaways are… yeah. Stay true to your characters. Establish them quickly. And then, you know, establish your story quickly and then establish what the main crux, or the main problem, of the book will be pretty quickly. That’s going to vary, of course, according to the genre that you’re writing. But, romance, you know what it’s going to be. Are these two going to end up together?

Anyway. So, our house. Just a quick update on the house because I know that you probably hate listening to us on this little recorder – and hopefully it’s not horrible – but we had the cabinets installed this week and they’ve got all the hard floorings in. They still need to do the carpet and they did make a couple mistakes on the cabinets and they’re going to have to fix that, but we’re hoping that we’ll be closing in the next two to eight weeks. He rolled his eyes. They can’t see an eye roll.

Nolan: Two to eight weeks seems sure.

Andrea: It does now that we know they’ve made errors with the cabinets, you know, they’ve got to fix those. Cabinets usually take the longest to order and…

Nolan: Mid-to-late March was their estimate. It doesn’t seem too terribly far off. So…

Andrea: No.

Nolan: Maybe a couple weeks later depending on the cabinets.

Andrea: Anyway, so I hope this has been helpful for you. The next one we’re going to do is Twilight. Is that agreed or should we do Skyline…

Nolan: We did the poll, so we could finish that out.

Andrea: Yeah. We can do Twilight.

Nolan: That will be a tough one for me.

Andrea: Why? Because you’ll be making fun of me the whole time?

Nolan: Yeah, no, I don’t know. Because I haven’t read the book. I think you’re going to have a better perspective on it. I mean, I can…

Andrea: I’ve told you everything in the book.

Nolan: I suppose.

Andrea: We’ve watched it enough for me to be like, “And this is what happened in the book, and this is what happened in the book.” I think you’ll be fine. But, I mean, I’d say it’s between that and Skyline. I mean, Skyline is an epicly bad, wonderful, awesome alien movie. When did it come out? 2014 or ’12 or something?

Nolan: We’ll give them the information.

Andrea: Yeah. Anyway, so we’ll probably do Twilight next just because that’s… we’ve been teasing it all along. I think it’s probably a good idea to do it when we’ve been telling everybody we’ll be doing it.

Nolan: We can do Skyline… that’s a lesser-known movie. If you haven’t seen Skyline, go watch Skyline now.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: So that after Twilight, you’ll have watched.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: To plan ahead.

Andrea: That’s actually a good idea. We’ll be releasing in the first ten episodes on the same day so we might want to make it be like, episode 14 or 13 so people have time to watch it.

Nolan: Yeah, yeah. If you haven’t seen any of these movies, or haven’t seen them recently, then do. Like, if you see the title of the episode and you haven’t seen the movie, try to watch the movie first.

Andrea: Yeah.

Nolan: It won’t benefit you…

Andrea: As much.

Nolan: …and it’ll kind of ruin it if you don’t watch the movie and then go back and watch the movies we’re talking about.

Andrea: Yeah, we’re definitely going to be giving spoilers. I don’t think there’s any way…

Nolan: Yeah, we’re discussing everything.

Andrea: Yeah. I don’t think there’s any way for us to avoid spoilers. So. We will try to continue to pick movies that are popular and well seen. And if they aren’t, then we’ll… I mean, we’ll eventually, once we start releasing on a regular basis, we will have a schedule where I’d say the beginning of the month we’ll say these are the movies that we’ll be discussing.

Nolan: For the month. Give you plenty of advanced warning.

Andrea: Yeah. Anyway, thank you for listening. You can email me at andrea@selfpublishstrong.com. You can find me on my website under pearsonbooks.com, on Amazon, selfpublishstrong.com, Facebook wherever, BookBub Promotions and More. I don’t think I’ve talked about the Facebook group for a little while. If you want to learn about promoting and marketing, come find us and ask any questions you have there.

Nolan: You can find me going through your garbage late at night.

Andrea: Oh, you’re such a creeper. You know, when my family first met Nolan, they were like… my mom said, “I don’t know, Andrea. He’s like the villain of a movie.” Because he had sunglasses on the whole time and never once took them off.

Nolan: It was really bright. I was standing in the doorway.

Andrea: It was awesome. All right. Okay, so go to patreon.com/selfpublishstrong and consider supporting us there and we will talk to you all later. Bye!

Nolan: Bye.


“On My Way” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

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